In Part 18 we have met the Klein absolute, which, for the case of the 2D (x,y) plane, happens to be the null cone (ζ0)2- (ζ1)2 - (ζ2)2 - (ζ3)2 = 0 in the 4D Minkowski space. As it is usual in projective geometry we remove the origin ζ=0 from this null cone - we do not need it.
Let us recall that we have added two extra dimensions x0 and x3. We added x3 for the stereographic projection, and then we added x0 to get rid of denominators and, instead of doing the stereographic projection we employed the projective space.
Our null cone ζ2 = 0 is invariant under the action ζ⟼g ζ τ(g) of the Clifford group G of the Clifford algebra Cl(V). The action is linear. We already know that g
ζ τ(g) = Λ(g)ζ, where Λ(g) is a Lorentz transformation. We have
calculated explicitly these transformations for typical one-parameter
subgroups of G and obtain either rotations or Lorentz boosts. Now, since
the action is linear, it defines the action on equivalence classes of
the equivalence relation "∼" defining the projection (see Part 18). If
ζ=λη, λ>0, then Λ(g)ζ = λΛ(g)η. Therefore g acts on the equivalence classes of "∼". Let us take a closer look at the structure of the set of these equivalence classes. What do we get? We rewrite ζ2 = 0 as
(ζ1)2
+ (ζ2)2
+ (ζ3)2 = (ζ0)2.
Since we have removed the origin from the null cone, ζ0 must be non zero.
Exercise 1. Why?
Thus either ζ0 > 0, or ζ0 < 0. We choose λ = 1/|ζ0| and obtain a unique point in the equivalence class of
ζ with the zero coordinate equal +1 or -1. Let us concentrate on the case +1. We obtain the equation
(ζ1)2
+ (ζ2)2
+ (ζ3)2 =1 for this unique point. It represents a
point on the two-dimensional sphere. It stereographically projects onto a
point in (x,y) plane except for the South Pole of the sphere with ζ3 = -1.
Let us return to our embedding formula from Part 18.
After some thinking, and prompted by Bjab's observation I have changed the embedding there to get rid of unnecessary minuses. It became
ζ0
= (1+x·x)/2,
ζ1
= x1,
ζ2 = x2,
ζ3 = (1-x·x)/2.
Now ζ0 + ζ3 = 1. If we have any point ζ' on the cone with ζ'0 + ζ'3 > 0, we can always rescale it by a unique positive λ to get ζ0 + ζ3 = 1, and then read the coordinates from ζ (the rescaled ζ') the two coordinates on the plane. The line with ζ0 + ζ3 = 0 form an equivalence class defining one point on the sphere - its South Pole, the Infinite Point on the plane.
Exercise 2. If ζ0 + ζ3
= 0 on the null cone, then, necessarily ζ1 = ζ2 = 0. Why?
Now we can return to the action of the Clifford group on Minkowski space, its null cone, the sphere, and the plane. We have a distinguished point on the sphere - its South Pole. Thus we can extract a special subgroup of transformations, namely those that do not move that distinguished point. These transformations will transform the (x,y) plane into itself - they will be easy to interpret. But there will be also other transformations that move the infinity point into some other point. Inverse of such a transformation will move a point on the plane into Infinity Point on the sphere, producing a singularity on the plane. We will analyze all this in the next post.
Where Have All the Spinors Gone?
We’ve got "spinors" boldly declared in the title of this series, yet somewhere along the way, they’ve managed to slip out of sight. This is unacceptable! Spinors should be front and center, the main act, not some backstage crew hiding in the shadows. So, just to keep them from becoming the forgotten middle child of mathematical objects, let’s bring them back into focus.
Recently, I received a seven-page paper from V.V. Varlamov. The topic? Clifford algebras and spinors, inspired by Rozenfeld's work on non-Euclidean geometry. I opened it eagerly, confident that by page seven, I’d emerge enlightened, ready to declare, "At last, I understand spinors!"
I did not.
The math in this paper was so advanced, it left me feeling like a freshman who wandered into a graduate-level seminar by mistake. My head began to spin—not in the cool quantum way, but in the “I need aspirin” way. The formulas weren’t just over my head; they were in orbit. It became clear that to keep my sanity intact, I needed to ditch the "follow the paper" approach and start thinking in my way.
So, here’s the mental road trip I embarked on:
We’ve got our trusty geometric Clifford algebra of space. It’s an elegant, eight-dimensional creature, cozy with bi-quaternions and complexified Minkowski space. Lovely. What’s more, this algebra isn’t just lounging around—it acts. And it acts on itself, no less. How?
- From the left:
- From the right:
Now, here’s the juicy part: when you let a Clifford group element act on something from the left, , it drags you out of the real Minkowski space. (Thanks a lot, .) To reel things back in, you need to hit it from the right with something like . This leads to a beautiful commuting relationship:
This is clean, elegant math. But what does it have to do with the quantum physics of spin? Here’s where my mind started making some leaps—and possibly doing a few backflips.
Left, Right, and Quantum Duality
In quantum theory, there’s always this duality: the "observer" versus the "system under observation." For spins, we’ve got the laboratory frame with its neat axes, along with a physicist who’s busy assigning complex spin vectors in Hilbert space. And then we have the spin itself—precessing, pirouetting, doing its quantum dance.
In my mental model, I associate the left action with the quantum system itself and the right action with the observer. Or maybe it’s the other way around? I’ll admit, this part’s still a work in progress. The details need ironing out, like a wrinkly shirt you’re not sure is clean or dirty, but you’re wearing it anyway.
Enter the Hairy Ball Theorem
Somehow, all these thoughts led me to the Hairy Ball Theorem. Yes, that theorem from topology—the one that proves you can’t comb a hairy ball flat without creating a cowlick. If you’re wondering what this has to do with spinors, quantum dualities, or Clifford algebra, congratulations—you’re just as confused as I am.
But don’t worry, this will all (hopefully) become clearer in future posts. For now, I’ll leave you with this cliffhanger: Can spinors help us avoid cowlicks in quantum mechanics?
P.S. 02-12-24 11:30 This morning a friend pointd to me a paper by Jesús Sánchez, available on Researchgate:
The title is "We live in eight dimensions and no, they are not hidden" and the abstract:reads:
"In this paper, we will show how Geometric Algebra expand the three spatial dimensions into entities of 8 degrees of freedom. It is also explained that one of these degrees of freedom (the trivector) can be considered to be the time (so no ad-hoc extra dimension is necessary). The square of the trivector is negative, solving this way the issue of the negative signature of the time (not necessary any ad-hoc metric indicating this, it is a property of time that appear naturally). Also, we will show that we can try to prove this experimentally looking for the electromagnetic trivector, an entity that should exist according to GA. Also, some comments regarding the similarities with E8 theory are given. Mainly that E8 theory considers 8 dimensions, exactly the same, emerging naturally in this paper. But not only that, also some similarities regarding how gravity can be understood, and others are presented. "
Keywords
Geometric Algebra, Eight Dimensions, Dirac Equation, Gravitation, E8 theory
I didn't read it yet, but I will certainly study it carefully, as the content of this paper overlaps with the ideas we are discussing on my blog. Coincidence? Or more than that?
On the last page of this paper I am reading:
"this case, Cl 3,0 or Cl 0,3 seems sufficient to explain most of the disciplines of physics, if we accept the issue that the time could be an emergent dimension coming from the three spatial dimensions in the form of scalar or trivector and not an ad-hoc added dimension to the reality. "
And that is also what I was bringing our attention to on this blog. Coincidence? Or "something is in the air"?
P.S. 02-12-24 15:03 Here are two youtube videos by Alain Cagnati on the related subject. They are in French, but one can download them with English subtitles. The description reads:
"This is a video on the unification of the 4 interactions... It's the same as the one called “unification” but with a different framing...
In this first of two videos, I show that Clifford's algebra on R^3 (Geometric Algebra) is a very good candidate to be a unifying algebra for physicists. Indeed, this 8-dimensional algebra has all the properties needed to represent reality. Hodge self-duality, Hopf algebra, etc.
In a second video, I'll show what fundamental implications this could have for physics.
Finally, I'll show how the fundamental structure of space (mirror symmetry, etc.) and the structure of the (human) psyche might be related."
FWIW, you might have removed one minus more than needed, the one in zetta3 like you forgot it in the initial Part 18, because now zetta3+ zetta1 does equal 1, but 1+x.x and x.x does not seem to be null in general.
ReplyDeleteMistake on my part; meant zetta0, not zetta1, as zetta0+zetta3=1.
ReplyDeleteRe Ex.2: Do you mean zetta0 - zetta3 = 0, as zetta0+zetta3=1? If it's with the minus, then it follows that in that case x.x=0.
Thanks. I think I have fixed it.
DeleteIn Exercise 2, is it zetta0 + zetta3 = 0 or zetta0 - zetta3 = 0?
DeleteBecause now as zetta0+zetta3=1 can't also be equal to 0, right?
zetta0 + zetta3 = 0 for a general zeta on the cone. Of course in the embedding formula zetta0 + zetta3 = 1. But a general zeta on the cone (minus origin) does not have to come from the embedding.
DeleteAha, thanks for clarification.
DeleteIn that case, zetta0=-zetta3, i.e. zetta0²=zetta3² => zetta1² + zetta2² = 0, which for real values of zetta components leads to zetta1=zetta2=0.
Re Ex 1.: if origin means (0,0,0) then evidently on the null cone zetta0²=0 at the origin, and if we exclude it, then zetta0 must be non-zero value.
That's it. I hope I did not make any more mistakes while playing with the signs.
DeleteThanks.
DeleteIf you did and we missed it, I'm confident Bjab will let you know. ;)
invariant the action ->
ReplyDeleteinvariant under the action
If we have any point ζ ->
If we have any point ζ'
cone with ζ0 + ζ3 > 0 ->
cone with ζ0' + ζ3' > 0
read the coordinates from ζ ->
ead the coordinates from ζ (the rescaled ζ')
Fixed. Thanks!
ReplyDelete"Exercise 2. If ζ0 + ζ3 = 0 on the null cone, then, necessarily ζ1 = ζ2 = 0"
ReplyDeleteBut it has nothing to do with the discussed embedding.
In the discussed embedding when ζ1 = ζ2 = 0 then ζ0 = ζ3.
In the discussed embedding only when ζ1 or ζ2 goes to infinity then ζ0 + ζ3 can go to zero.
"But it has nothing to do with the discussed embedding."
DeleteIndeed. It was just a side remark with the only purpose to make the Reader to think. And it worked, at least for some readers.
No we can return ->
ReplyDeleteNow we can return
Thus there will a special ->
Thus we can extract a special
Corrected. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteArk, thank you for the Sánchez's paper. Very interesting. And even not cumbersome. Surely, the 8-dimensionality and fundamental doubling are related to the Spinor Adventure undertaken here.
ReplyDeleteI only want to note that "something is in the air" for a rather long time already, see for example, Yury Rumer "Spinorny analiz" (1936) https://ikfia.ysn.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Rumer1936ru.pdf. That was an early attempt to recast physics in terms of spinors.
Yes, I adore Rumer's insight. I am quoting Rumer's book on five-optics in my one of my papers here:
Deletehttps://arxiv.org/abs/1111.5540
And here:
Deletehttps://arxiv.org/abs/1111.5540
And thanks for pointing it to me "Spinorny analiz" - I didn't know this book.
Delete"I only want to note that "something is in the air" for a rather long time already"
Delete"А рассвет уже все заметнее..."
Now this book has only a historical significance. Those old-fashioned skewed photographs of the yellowed paper sheets...:)
DeleteI was putting aside studying the ideas of five-optics for a long time, may be now i will have to learn them.
Ark, i cannot see the video, since YouTube is banned in RF presently. Although it is remarkable that you find still new members of our Cl(V) club. Glad to see that, in the description, "8-dimensional algebra" appears together with "Hodge self-duality", "Hopf algebra", etc. These concepts also touch the deep strings of my mind and soul.
ReplyDeleteI have upload the videos for you:
Deletehttps://disk.yandex.ru/i/vcLMBJLejhWbTA
https://disk.yandex.ru/i/YGL10X0xsqDYgg
Just let me know after you successfully downloaded them.
So kind of you, Ark, thanks a lot! Both are downloaded successfully
DeleteYou're very welcome. There is an English subtitle track that you can choose on each of these videos.
DeleteLisi the guy Sanchez references for E8 has on his Facebook page said that E8 and Cl(8) are very related and I think Cl(8) is better. E8 more directly adds something like SO(8) root lattices for intuition but Cl(8) is better for an actual Fock space. Trivector for time makes a lot of sense from a cellular automata analogy point of view but in Cl(3) to Cl(8) actual algebra terms isn't something I know about.
ReplyDeleteFirst, about the Sanchez's paper. His ideas are very natural (though he often argues they are not); i arrived at the very similar mental picture myself, but only except one last step that i dared not to do -- the identification of trivector with time! Alas...) Although it seems to stem perfectly from the logic of 8-dicity.
ReplyDeleteNow i should say that time is apparently related to mass and volume, and not only via the creation of mass during evolution, as Sanchez writes, but via the fact that time passes for massive, volumetric substance and stands at the massless radiation. This way of thought leads to the bulk-boundary relations and, perhaps, to the absolutes and spinors, needs further exploration.
From the first video by Alain Cagnatti I have learned that the idea of time being related to the trivector originated from J.-M. Souriau. I happened to meet Souriau personally I have lot of respect to his ideas. The question that appears in my mind is: If there is indeed such a relation what is this relation exactly? Identity? Duality? The physical dimensions do not fit, as it seems to me.
DeleteYes! To find this relation between time and volume (more definitely, mass) is exciting, isn't it? Another, rather evident idea is that they should be related through the notion of inertia.
DeleteThere is also Weizsacker's Ur-alternative that we should not forget about. For instance as developed in this paper:
Delete"The informational model – Gravity and Electric Forces" by Shevchenko and Tokarevsky:
https://indico.cern.ch/event/1109513/contributions/4937721/attachments/2547313/4433341/Forces_Main_v2.pdf
There is "Ur-time", and there is a macroscopic time. Moreover there may be "real time" and "imaginary time". A true Pandora box.
Ark, thank you for the link. Frankly speaking, i am not fond of the 'two times' idea. We cannot figure out what the real time is, how can we aim at the imaginary one...) As far as i know, a true adherent of the 'two times' hypothesis is Andrey Sevalnicov, whose talk you heard at the Vladimirov' s Thursday seminar about a month ago.
DeleteSo far in our analysis of the action of the Clifford group it was the real x0 that was playing the role of time. The imaginary "i", the 3-vector, is the Hodge dual of 1.
DeleteSecond, about the "Klein absolute, which, for the case of the 2D (x,y) plane, happens to be the null cone in the 4D Minkowski space". Can we imagine a picture of this manifold? We know that the absolute of Minkowski space is the 3D Lobachevsky space, and the absolute of the latter is 2D Lobachevsky space. Doesn't the Klein absolute have any relation to the Hopf fibration, but with the spheres taken in non-Euclidean geometry?
ReplyDelete"We know that the absolute of Minkowski space is the 3D Lobachevsky space"
DeleteI am not yet that far. Can't grasp it yet.
Kotelnikov' paper, last page: "Абсолютом мира Ньютона служит обыкновенное трехмерное Евклидово пространство; абсолютом последнего - мнимое коническое сечение (шаровой круг).
DeleteАбсолютом мира Минковского служит трехмерное пространство Лобачевского; абсолютом последнего - световая поверхность 2-го порядка."
Yeah. I have a lot to learn.
DeleteAs to the pdf:
ReplyDeleteSometimes Cl(E) sometimes Cl(V).
Under (2) nothing about cross.
Thanks. Will take care about it.
DeleteI have read the Sanchez's paper, fortunately calculations are not tough there. Of course, the idea of interpreting time as trivector is striking. Although in essence it does not bring anything new, except for what Minkowski did when he collected space and time into a single concept.
ReplyDeleteThere is one interesting phrase, which i don’t understand, but it may be important.
P.15: «In E8 gravity is related with the principle bundle of geometry. In chapter 8 it has been commented that that gravity could be related with the definition of the mutual relations of the basis vectors (their scalar product) in GA. Very similar of what a principle bundle is by definition».
Does he mean the connection of gramian and metric tensor? And what is the role of principle bundle here?
Lisi's E8 gravity uses frame fields so this could just be saying gravity comes from making bivectors from basis vectors for rotations, boosts, etc. with the scalar product. I tend to think of bundles as Ark's EEQT central algebra related. Lisi's E8 model isn't quantized so I sort of think of it as a giant central algebra though Lisi hoped to merge his E8 with Loop Quantum Gravity and E8 like Clifford algebra can handle spinor fermions. E8 is good for seeing 8 copies of a vector-half spinor-half spinor triality where the vector part I think of as what should be the less giant central algebra part.
DeleteA good beginning of the paper on Clifford algebras, started 03 Dec 2024. I am only not sure that it is pedagogical to introduce Clifford algebras via the Grassmann ones, but it is a matter of taste, surely. I have a stupid question in this connection: the endowing of algebra by antisymmetric form F looks a bit artificial for me. We already have the Grassmann structure, which is antisymmetric, right? Hence, the algebra is already equipped with an antisymmetric form. Adding the symmetric form of the scalar product makes it the Clifford type algebra. Why should we endow it with one more antisymmetric form F?
ReplyDeleteBut Grassmann algebra structure does not involve any antisymmetric form. Grassmann algebra product of vectors is antisymmetric, but the product is a bivector, not a number.
DeleteIn fact I have a whole paper on this subject:
Deletehttps://arxiv.org/abs/2103.09767
But it is very technical.
The story is: Clifford algebra can be defined for ANY bilinear form. Clifford algebras having the same symmetric part of this form are isomorphic as algebras, but their Clifford groups are differently embedded in the Grassmann algebra. In my paper I am giving it a meaning similar to that of gauge transformations. Observables stay the same, but that does not mean that gauge transformations do not play any role.
DeleteSurely... Thanks. i suspected that my problem is in badly learned definitions. Got lost within antisymmetries.
DeleteThe idea to represent gauge transformations by various embeddings of CA into GrA seems great. I have a dejavu effect that i have already seen the paper https://arxiv.org/abs/2103.09767. At least, read the annotation, definitely.