There’s no shortage of theories trying to explain the mysteries of quantum mechanics, and consciousness often gets dragged into the mix. Some even claim it has a special role in state vector reduction—those quirky “quantum jumps.” Roger Penrose is one such advocate, but he’s not alone. When you ask these consciousness enthusiasts if physics behaves differently on the far side of the Moon (where no one’s watching) or if atoms over there just stop jumping, the answers get...let’s say, "evasive."
Who's Consciousness Is It Anyway?
Now, I'm not here to knock anyone’s ideas. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But, honestly, this view feels a bit like trying to peer through a foggy window. I mean, whose consciousness are we talking about here? When John Wheeler, another big name in the "consciousness club," was pushed on this point, he eventually said it was “consciousness in general.” Sounds poetic, right? The problem is, no one knows what “consciousness in general” actually means.
And let’s be real—science knows more about quarks and gluons than it does about human consciousness. So, no, I don’t think consciousness is irrelevant, but I do think it’s being overhyped in quantum mechanics.
Is the Universe Watching Itself?
Measurements and observations in the universe happen, whether we’re looking or not. The cosmos doesn’t wait for us to wake up in the morning to start its business. Atoms are constantly observing other atoms, cats are keeping tabs on mice, and things happen regardless of our awareness.
This brings me to my simple, no-nonsense perspective: consciousness doesn’t create reality, it just interprets it. Consciousness, in my view, is there to give meaning to what we observe. The more complex the consciousness, the deeper and richer the meaning.
The Meaning of Consciousness
Here’s the kicker: the higher your level of consciousness, the more meaning you can extract from an experience. A cat sees the world differently than bacteria, and we humans have the potential to see meaning on levels a cat can’t even dream of. This ability to find meaning ties into free will—we see meaning in something, and it allows us to make conscious decisions, changing ourselves and reality. It’s like designing your own narrative rather than just playing out some mechanical script.
So, no, I don’t believe in consciousness collapsing wave functions. But that doesn’t mean it’s useless—it’s just not responsible for playing referee in quantum mechanics.
Gravity vs. Consciousness: The Final Showdown
Now, if consciousness isn’t out there reducing wave packets, then what is? Gravity, maybe? Some theories suggest gravity might be responsible for collapsing quantum states. But here’s the twist—what if wave function collapse actually explains gravity? It’s one of those chicken-and-egg scenarios, except the chicken is quantum mechanics and the egg is the entire fabric of spacetime.
I don’t claim to know the definitive answer to what reduces wave packets, but I do know how to describe the process. And that’s what matters. A simple, quantitative description that satisfies both quantum theory and the observations of a humble peasant (equipped with the finest metaphorical pitchfork, of course).
P.S. 21-10-24 12:32 In reply to the comment by Igor Bayak, here is my "random walk" simulation:
Single quantum system under continuous observation?
Quantum theory is strange. It is often acclaimed as the most successful of all theories in physics, but at the same time it leads to never ending debates about its meaning and its ontology. Philosophers like to draw our attention to the fact that not all is "quantum", that there are also tables and chairs. Wave-particle duality can be described mathematically, but are we completely satisfied with this description? Evidently not all physicists are happy. Louis de Broglie, one of the founders of quantum theory, in his later years returned to the beginnings and tried to find a better solution in non-linear theories. CERN physicist John Bell was unhappy, not only just unhappy, he was literally angry at the status of quantum theory and the misleading terminology that is being used by his fellow physicists in order to hide the real problems.How Nature does what it does? Is it a reasonable question at all? If it is, then how can we go about it?Physics builds models of reality. Some of these models pretend to be fundamental, some other just phenomenological. Here is one such model. There is quantum wave, there are tables and chairs (red detectors, there are events -- when tables are overthrown, when red becomes white. And there are wave collapses. It all can be modelled mathematically. Probably the model is not realistic, yet it does its job. The wave is moving, it overthrows tables and chairs, and it leaves a real and visible track -- like those that can be seen in nuclear emulsions or cloud chambers. Each such even is accompanied by collapse of the wave and its rejuvenation. The process is governed by partly deterministic and partly random laws -- well known in this branch of the mathematical theory of random processes that deals with earthquakes and financial markets.The animation presents one such history: a sequence of collapses and the track that we interpret as that of a passing "particle", for instance an electron. A different run of "the same" experiment would produce somewhat different track. During the animation the wave (only its probability density is displayed on this video) travels across the field of somewhat randomly distributed "particle detectors". Detectors fire using a (tamed) random algorithm . Those that have fired change their color from red to white and become non-active. All the data, including sensitivity of the detectors are on the atomic scale. We notice that there is a certain angle between the direction of the wave (directly towards the camera) and the track that is left. This is not unexpected, owing to the random nature of the whole phenomenon. The coupling between the wave and the detectors that is being modeled here does not include energy and/or momentum transfers between the wave and the detectors. Only "information-theoretical exchange", "I tell you where I am, and you will collapse me in exchange", is taken into account.Tools used in this animation: parallel implementation of the time-dependent Schrodinger equation with complex potentials (CUDA), with Fast Fourier transform, OpenGL, piecewise-deterministic algorithm of EEQT.
P.S. 22-10-24 9:18 This morning received from the Author a complimentary copy of his new book:
Paranormal Science
First Edition
This edition copyright
©2021 by Mark McWilliams
ISBN 978-0-578-25759-4
This edition printed by
48 Hr Books
2249 14th St. SW
Akron, OH 44314:
"Topological GeometroDynamics (TGD) realizes Einstein's dream that Gravity can explain everything in our Universe including a reverse Arrow-of-Time, Experienced(subjective)-Time vs. Geometric(relativistic)-Time, a theory of Consciousness (and Life-after-Death), and Quantum-Biology. Dark Matter plays an important role as does Dark Energy.Luminiferous aether (or ether) was the postulated medium for the propagation of light in the 19th Century. It was invoked to explain the ability of the apparently wave-based light to propagate through empty space (a vacuum), something that waves should not be able to do. The assumption of a spatial plenum of luminiferous aether rather than a spatial vacuum provided the theoretical medium that was required by wave theories of light. Then along came Einstein who proved that the aether was not necessary to explain light's propagation. However, (at that time) he did not say that the aether did not exist.Similarly, this book does not dismiss personal religion including "miracles" and the power of prayer etc. Life-after-Death is a function of Einstein's geometry (albeit a complex geometry defined by tensor calculus) and independent of Religion. When the Universe and Life were created, these are the Rules which govern them. In other words, TGD-physics proposes how the Paranormal works in this Universe."
This is a test, because I was not able to read a message when (or if?) my post will be visible. I hoper that now during this test I will be succeed in reading it in twithin 0.5 second.
ReplyDeleteThanks. Will check your links.
ReplyDeleteСознание рисует дополнительное свёрнутое измерение и вуаля нет волшебства с редукцией. Наблюдателя располагаем на одной из линейных образующих бесконечного цилиндра, а измеряемый объект (частицу) запускаем скользить по одной из (равновероятно) спиралей, имеющих вполне определённый шаг. Иначе говоря, волновую функцию чвстицы мы приготовили так, что ее длина волны известна, а положение нет. Но как только наблюдатель поймает эту частиуц, волновая функция редуцирует - положение известно, а её длина волны неопределённая величина.
ReplyDelete"волновую функцию чвстицы"
ReplyDeleteWhat is "wave function"? What is "particle"?
Частица это камушек запущенный скользить по поверхности цилиндра под определённым углом, но с неопределённого места, а волновая функция это плод воображения наблюдателя. А что прикажете делать наблюдателю, ему только и остаётся что считать математическое ожидание такой случайной величины как фаза пролёта камушка над наблюдателем.
Delete"волновая функция это плод воображения наблюдателя"
DeleteThen why it has to be complex-valued?
Потому что случайная величина это e^{i\varphi(x)}. Кстати, я идеализировал наблюдателя. На самом, деле это не точка на линейной образующей цилиндра, а отрезок винтовой линии цилиндра, поэтому классический наблюдатель всё же встретится с камушком, пролетающим над идеальным (точечным) наблюдателем.
Delete"Потому что случайная величина это e^{i\varphi(x)}. "
DeleteWhy?
А как ещё можно обозначить фазу камушка, скользящего по поверхности бесконечного цилиндра? Я выбрал такое обозначение.
DeleteWhy complex numbers?
Delete"считать математическое ожидание такой случайной величины как фаза пролёта камушка над наблюдателем."
DeleteAnd how does the observer calculates the expectation value of this phase?
"случайной величины как фаза"
DeleteWhy is ir random? What kind of random variable it is? Every random variable obey a certain probability distribution rule. What kind of random walk it is?
Умеете вы давить. Прийдётся отбиваться. Комплексное потому, что кроме фазы есть ещё вероятность - вероятность умножим на фазу получим комплексное число. Если равная вероятность, то умножаем на 1 и делим на нормировочный множитель. А в целом да, распределения могут быть разными. Впрочем, вы обещали выпустить заметку о случайных блужданиях. Давайте отложим разговор на эту тему до этого момента. Тогда и я подготовлюсь к этому разговору.
DeleteAdded my simulation of random walk in P.S. under this post.
DeleteRepeated collapses of the wave are necessary, and they do not occur in the mind of the observer. They accompany the "events", dissrespective of whether someone is watching or not.
DeleteПолностью с вами согласен. Коллапс не в голове наблюдателя, а результат воздействия (измерения) наблюдателя.
DeleteBut what constitutes a "measurement" in your view. And what if there is no "observer"? When no one observes, then there are no collapses?
DeleteНаблюдатель нужен только для фиксации коллапса, который происходит в результате любого взаимодействия.
Delete"любого взаимодействия"" Interaction of what with what?
DeleteВолновая функция частицы вычисляется как функциональный интеграл, в котором в подинтегральном выражении имеется величина e^{iS(x)}, где S это действие частицы. Поэтому лбое воздействие это то, что изменяет действие частицы.
DeleteCollapse happens at a certain time. I dot see time in your expression. Where is time?
Delete"функциональный интеграл, в котором в подинтегральном выражении имеется величина e^{iS(x)}"
DeleteCan you calculate this "функциональный интеграл" on the simplest possible example? For instance just for pure spin 1/2? So that we have something particular to discuss instead of fuzzy generalities?
Боюсь я не смогу выполнить эти вычисления. В заметке "О хаотической динамике электрона" я пытался интерполировать функциональный интеграл (2.4.11) произведением сумм (2.4.10), но это относилось к случайному блужданию по тороидальной обмотке сферы без полюсов. Хотя, может быть это и можно интерпретировать как случайный выбор направления спина. Не знаю.
DeleteOK. You can't calculate anything. Fine. You wrote "в подинтегральном выражении имеется величина e^{iS(x)}."
DeleteWhat is x in this expression?
x это линейная координата цилиндра, а S это угловая координата частицы.
DeleteSo, what is S(x)?
DeleteS(x)=kx+\phi, где \phi фаза в нулевой точке.
DeleteAnd where is time?
DeleteВремя сидит в операторе эволюции, а мы пока разбираемся с тем, что будет эволюционировать в результате воздействие или не будет эволюционировать в отсутствии взаимодействия. Насколько я понимаю в подинтегральном выражении стоит не только пропагатор, но и волновая функция в начальный момент эволюции. Кроме того, поскольку мы рассматриваем упрощённую модель, то в фазу не включена компонента ωt. Давайте прежде чем переходить к конструированию оператора эволюции, рассмотрим суперпозицию двух волновых функций. Пусть у нас имеется ψ_1=exp(ik_{1}x} и ψ_2=exp(ik_{2}x}. Тогда суперпозиция это ψ=ρ_{1}exp(φ_{1})ψ_1+ρ_{2}exp(φ_{2})ψ_2
Deleteгде
c_1=ρ_{1}exp(φ_{1})
c_2=ρ_{2}exp(φ_{2})
c_1c*_1+c_2c*_2=1
а ρ_1,ρ_2 это квадратные корни из вероятностей соответствующих случайных событий 1,2.
А вот уже дальше, для конструирования оператора эволюции, мы разобьём время на дискретные промежутки и решим задачу о случайном блуждании частицы по поверхности цилиндра.
поправка: пропущена мнимая единица, а надо так
Deletec_1=ρ_{1}exp(iφ_{1})
Penrose used the many worlds interpretation as an analogy in that when gravity collapses the wave function (due to a Planck scale violation) you choose a world for yourself but not others or something like that. Tony used Penrose for a large superposition of electrons in the brain but used something different for GRW for small numbers. It was still gravity but more like the travel time of a graviton inside a fundamental particle based on a black hole equation.
ReplyDeletePenrose has the Penrose Interpretation for a small number of particles but Tony did not use that. Tony had two plots that crossed and which ever one kicked in first was the one to use as in his GRW for small numbers and the Penrose Orch-OR for large numbers of particles in superposition.
Going over Tony Smith's work at viXra it's evident he was a great mind with a tremendous creative output.
DeleteUnfortunately, it seems he got stuck in one of the dead-end never-ending dark tunnels of modern theoretical physics, as per Ark's description in one of the recent blog entries here of the situation today in that field of research, that is (super)string model.
Few things that stand out in support of this 'conclusion' that his proposed description was not the overall correct or true picture of reality,
- focus on material existence and material Universe beneath which is void, that is "nothing" as Smith declared, removing consciousness and free will and God from the picture, and thus subscribing to postmodernist nihilistic material paradigm which he desperately tried to fit into (vixra.org/abs/1711.0389), for which the number of dimensions grew out of proportions (vixra.org/abs/1804.0121);
- apart from super-string dead-end, going into equally questionable super-symmetry direction which is not supported by experiments so far, and by doing so excessively enlarging the number of 'particles' to 28+28=56 bosons and 8+8 fermions for just 1 generation (vixra.org/abs/1902.0241).
One of his early papers (vixra.org/abs/0909.0062) was declared to be in support of the statement,
"... The ancients possessed profound scientific wisdom. ... Mankind ... had once grasped the true nature of the universe",
but then went on with,
"begin with the "Order Eight" Clifford Algebra Cl(8) whose 2^8 = 256 dimensions ... then multiply (by tensor product) 8 copies of Cl(8) to produce Cl(64) whose 2^64 dimensions ...",
which all together seems quite improbable implication that the ancient man handled so many dimensions (heck, even 256 of them seem extremely difficult or impossible to grasp) in his view or perception of reality surrounding him on daily basis in those days.
All in all, it seems Tony Smith's creativity and energy got sucked in and fed an egregore cloud mankind's spirit's been immersed into nowadays. Unfortunately.
Let me repeat my question. You wrote: "подинтегральном выражении имеется величина e^{iS(x)}." You also wrote:
Delete"S(x)=kx+\phi, где \phi фаза в нулевой точке."
I am simply asking: where is time in THIS expression?
Also: what are you integrating over? Can you answer THESE simple equations
Обычно время обозначают другой буквой, а там её нет. Зачем тогда спрашивать. Кроме того, вы уже писали, что ничего я не умею вычислять. Зачем тогда спрашивать ещё раз. А вообще, функциональный интеграл я планировал представить как предел произведения сумм, где суммирование идёт по x=mΔx, а произведение по t=nΔt, причём m∈Z, n∈N, Δt=Δx.
Delete"функциональный интеграл"?
DeleteI do not see any "function" there. So, why "функциональный"? Where are functions? What are you integrating? What are your integration variables?
Saša, вы говорите больших размерностях алгебр, но не забывайте, что размерность пространства представления этих алгебр не такая уж и большая.
DeleteЯ так понимая, что функциональный интеграл это синоним интеграла по траекториям (могу и ошибаться), поэтому переменной здесь является виртуальный путь (возможная траектория) частицы.
DeleteIgor, you wrote:
Delete"подинтегральном выражении имеется величина e^{iS(x)}", and "S(x)=kx+\phi, где \phi фаза в нулевой точке."
Where do you see there "виртуальный путь"? I do not see it. So, where is it?
Ну вы даёте, хотите всё сразу. Да, сейчас там этого нет, но я ведь намекаю, что там это будет. Не зря ведь, мы говорим о сучайном блуждании.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIY5McT-8cI
DeleteTony has God as an eternal infinite/hyperfinite tensor product of Cl(8)s at the Planck scale. He has all states as eternal not just the Planck scale. He has free will in a back reaction Sarfatti quantum transaction way. He saw IFA as a 256-dim divination use so the understanding was more use. He uses Paola Zizzi's big wow model that has the big bang as a conscious thought so void is more a Planck scale parent universe black hole thing also related to dark energy and ancient idea of playing a flute backwards. Tony is anti superstring though he does use bosonic string math in a version that isn't my favorite. The 64 is for 8 components of 8 fermions. 8 components via 8-dim spacetime.
DeleteThe graded Cl(8) is 1+8+28+56+70+56+28+8+1. It's for a Fock space so need creation and annihilation versions of particles so the odd grade 8+56+56+8 is for the 8 components of 8 fermions (creation and annihilation). The 28 + 28 is also for creation and annihilation (12 for the standard model and 15 for an Ark-like conformal gravity and a Feynman-like propagator phase). The ones are for the Higgs scalar (creation and annihilation) and 6 of the middle grade 70 are for Higgs SU(2)s (creation and annihilation). That leaves 64 which gives a Bradonjic/Stachel differential geometry (a conformal and unimodular structure). It also has a standard model differential geometry. It reminds me of Ark's central algebra for his EEQT though it's more directly a central grade for Tony. I originally found Ark via Tony referencing Ark for conformal structures. That Cl(64) relates to a 2^64 = 10^19 Planck mass black hole threshold for decoherence of the big bang in Zizzi's model. I understand Smith's Cl(8) much better than Zizzi's 2^64. They should be treated as two different models and for the Zizzi one, Tony is kind of just the messenger. That old Vixra paper you mention also relates the 256 of Cl(8) to the 256 elementary cellular automata rules and I have a Vixra paper about that. It's viXra:1611.0030 but a more updated version is here:
Deletehttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1UjPLFiWiuzqRawzC3KSJGZQRyp1nIHLjUuGecCeGMeg/edit?usp=sharing
Thank you for the explanation and the link to the paper, which seems a bit over my head, but will give it a check out.
Delete" The assumption of a spatial plenum of luminiferous aether rather than a spatial vacuum provided the theoretical medium that was required by wave theories of light. Then along came Einstein who proved that the aether was not necessary to explain light's propagation. However, (at that time) he did not say that the aether did not exist."
ReplyDeleteAnd did Einstein ever state that the aether does not exist?
Because what is existence if not the ability to influence or change reality?
Further in the book we get this:
Delete"I mean if you've got plasma … Plasma only exists at the temporary level. I mean if you've got a ball of light -- or an oval of light or whatever -- come into existence, you say: “Well okay, I can accept that there's intelligible … Where does that intelligence goes when the light goes out?”
Well, the idea is that it withdraws back into a more implicate or hidden realm. What you call the aether the ancient Greeks called the "plenum". And that here, it can move instantaneously and then inhabit new plasma environments. Now quite clearly, this could be local to the other one that's just gone out like two. You know, like one light goes out and another one comes on.
It's the same intelligence. Or quite clearly, it could be on the other side of the Universe and backwards-and-forwards in Time.
Beyond our own concepts of space-time, anything can happen. Anything can be going on. Our mind can influence the Past. The Past can influence us [i.e., the Present]. We can influence the Future. The Future can influence us. That's Time."
"Beyond our own concepts of space-time, anything can happen. Anything can be going on. Our mind can influence the Past. The Past can influence us [i.e., the Present]. We can influence the Future. The Future can influence us. That's Time."
DeleteWell, some things can really happen for example one can write such nonsense as above.
"Our mind can influence the Past."
DeleteSure. That is what politicians do. They are rewriting the history.
"The Past can influence us"
No question about it.
"We can influence the Future."
No question about it.
"Future can influence us"
Sure, in a Godel-type universe with time loops, or in multidimensional time theories framework.
"They are rewriting the history."
DeleteRewrinting is not copy-pasting. The past is not changeable. Events that occured occured.
"in a Godel-type universe with time loops, or in multidimensional time theories framework."
This only proves the inapplicability of these theories to the real world.
"The past is not changeable."
DeleteThat is one possible opinion. Certainly. There are other opinions possible. We do not know what the true history was, due to frequent rewriting. So, how can we know if the past can be changed or not? We can't. That is the question of believe, not based on an unquestionable knowledge.
"This only proves the inapplicability of these theories to the real world."
That is an opinion of many, but not all physicists. Again, that is a believe. One can hold such believe, certainly, and the majority of physicists seems to hold it. But the majority was once in a while seriously wrong.
"We can only think that we can influence the future.(Fortunately.)"
DeleteI am influencing the future right now, by preparing tomorrow's post about the exterior algebra of space. If I would be only thinking about it, that would not enough. I know it from my past experience.
"Again, that is a believe."
DeleteBelieve based on past experience. (It's rational.)
"I am influencing the future right now".
You think that you are influencing it. The future was "written in the stars" long ago.
"Believe based on past experience. (It's rational.)"
DeleteSure, At some point in the past the believe that the Earth is flat was also rational.
"The future was "written in the stars" long ago."
Perhaps. But whether the reality holds to this written script or not ,in every detail, that is another big question.
The Earth is still flat (on a small (usefull) scale).
DeleteIt was evidently written in the stars that I put the new post today instead of tomorrow! So I obeyed.
Delete